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Debate on Santhals and Chrsitanity........More

Member's View :

Mon Oct 29, 2001  6:00 pm
dear Francis,
thanks a lot for joining this e-group and expressing your concern on the issue of Santal identity. Conversion has been the thorny issue and continue to be so in the years to come. Here I don't want to condemn or support something outrightly which has different meaning to different people. I'm expressing my views here so as to facilitate healthy discussion on this. Itis wrong to say Christian or non-Christian Santals as Santals are an entity with specific nomenclature with a history dates back to the birth of Jesus Christ.A person can either be a Christian or a Santal and not a combination of both. The process of proselytisation emaned from the very fact that those who did/do not like the social milieu of Santals changed their belief on the Saviour and embraced Christianity. The use of term Christian Santals or with this prefix with some tribal group is based on convenience so as to avail some concessions given to the Santals/tribal groups by the Govts. Otherwise there is no point in calling oneself by a name which he disliked in some point of time. The use of Christian and non Christian Santals defies the concept of unique society. If we allow the existence of this duality, then automatically blame come to the persons responsible to create a division in a unique sociey. It is, therefore, advisable to the persons converted to Christianity not to call themselves as Santals. If they are doing so, they are commiting blasphemy in their new found belief. The gap you are identifying is the response to this reality. My endeavour is not to pin point who is wrong or who is right but the highlight the difference between the principle and practice. Traditionally, Santals are a self supported and self sufficient social group. For this reason they cannot be called as Hindu Santal, Christian Santal, Buddhist Santal or Muslim Santal etc.
 I feel proud to be known as a Santal without a prefix or suffix. Those who like to use prefix or suffix can share their side of story. It is interesting to see that Santals those who had/have decided/desired to assimilate themselves in an international stream(community) still prefer to be known by a name which once upon a time was disliked. From the fact that persons with strong support base (as a member of Christian community) still cherish and feel comfortable to be known as "Santals", repose a sense of pride in me that Santals too have some characteristics though not all which are superior than the Christian Commandments. It is nice to see intelligent and highly educated people like you have started questioning this duality in search of a unique identity.
yours PC Hembram

 Hello Francis,
Welcome to this egroup. I also wanna put my two cents thoughts in this issue i.e. division of santal race under Christian and non-Christian Hindu) and in this situation what wesanthals egroup should comprise of. Santal is not only a race, but also a religion. When we refer "Santal" as a race, we mean it is a group of human, and officially meant as schedule tribe of India. When we say religion, it consists of certain belief and some tradition similar to other religion like Hindu, Muslim, Christian. We named it as "Sarna". The relationship between "santal" and "sarna" is such that one is called santal when she obeys the tradition of sarna religion. They r like two sides of a coin. The significance of sarna religion is implied by calling herself as Santal. So in my opinion, one should call himself as santal when he will worship in Jaher, belief in Marang Buru, marry according to the santal culture and prefer to cherish the santal culture and tradition.  ( I don't pin point anyone either Hindu /Christian,who is going out of this circle) In this context, how the concepts of hindusm/christianity came in to our race? Generally we, santals were poor in terms of knowledge, wealth and power. So in the past, the identity of our religion was ignored. We were counted as Hindu. Although, the original Hindus consider us as lowered class Hindu, but we preferred to stay like that as we didn't have voice to raise against them. But we never neglected to adopt our sarna tradition. In the mean time, the Christian community came to India and started helping the poor people. The few santals need their help (some actually needed it) and others sold their identity with the money. But the sad part is that they almost washed away the tradition, culture of santal society. They left the Jaher culture, they left the puja at their home to their forefathers, they left the marriage tradition of santals. This is what they have done mistake. If Christianity is adopted for help, then none will stop u from making "Johar in Jaher". None will stop u by making marriage in santal tradition, but most of SO CALLED christian-santals hesitate to do that.  I wish if someone is called himself as Santal, he must prefer to follow the santal culture and tradition. He must create the faith of sarna in his and his children's hearts. Hope, all of us will mrecover back to that very soon.mIn this context, for whom is the wesantahls yahoomgroup? It's for all type of santals, who feelsmhim/herself as santals. I don't want if someone is  going out of this feeling, to be out of this group. But hope we all will comeback to strengthen us with the spirit of Jaher culture, bcoz it's mission is not to divide us but tu unite us to stuggle for our common targets. with regards

Raj
PS: We r not conservative, we r preserving thesantal identity.

 Tue Oct 30, 2001  3:09 pm
Hallo,
Before presenting my views here, i would like to review of some of the definition which is really very important for discussion.
 Definition of Ethnic Group:The term ethnic means of or relating to sizable groups of people sharing a common and distinctive racial, national, religious, linguistic, or culture heritage.
Definition of Community:
A group of people who share "some thing" common .It can be nay thing. e.g. Community Halls, Community kitchen , or computer graphics community etc....

Christian can be Santhals ?
If you all these definition , you will have idea theres some kind of vagueness of all definition. There is not any clear cut way of definition is given here and if you go through any book of sociology, you will find lot definitions. That is where lies the root cause of all problem. It gives some kind of discretion of the people who are practising it or who are in command position. I am little bit surprised to see the trying to find simple solution out of complex and vast class  of solutions. Two my friends given their opnions about this. But I find the assesement ot estimate are from the religion point of view. Why can not think in terms of community ? We have vast numbers of things common, eg. physical characteristics,Linguistic,etc . Let leave alone the religion part right now for sake of arguments. This definitely serves one kind of platform for community. We can think of betterment of language , script,, we can together also think of betterment of community as whole. Here does not lie any conflicts or it does not originates any problem of recognised as Santhals community.  But our problem lies in the thin division line goes between the religion and culture.This is inextricably mixed with eachother.

Why there is division or conflicts ?
Religion originates in an attempt to represent and order beliefs, feelings, imaginings and actions that arise in response to direct experience of the sacred and the spiritual. As this attempt expands in its formulation and elaboration, it becomes a process that creates meaning for itself on a sustaining basis, in terms of both its originating experiences and its own continuing responses.  The essence of Christianity is a belief, a particular truth claim: that Jesus was the sole son of God andthat he redeemed mankind from sin by his crucifixion and resurrection. Modern Bible scholarship has made that belief untenable. The propagation of thsese beliefs were entirely within the Jewish tradition, at least within its fringe of culture and tradition of that time. Christian religion is flourushed at Europe, So many of eouropian culture has assimilated into the Christian Religion. Other way, This culture is synonym of Christian. although it is not true ! When missionaries preaches this religion, they some time unable to understand or seperate the culture and religion and they impose the tradition of Europians in the name of Christian. This gives some kind of wrong impression of Christianity.That is why you can find out lot of difference between "Christian Santhals" and Santhals. I have quite lot of experience at organising Get-together at Bangalore. I can still remember,some reason we could not organise the get-together in October. We planned to host this at December 1st or 2nd. And the same time there was a some person wanted to host Christmas party at his residence. We had been forced to change the schedule of get-together and many of them refused to come to get-together. Even some told me, my religion come first and then my culture or whatever it is . I really got pain their thinking of culture. There is no scope of Culture when it goes little bit against the religion. This I can highlytake a sample from vast populations. This reflects conflict of relgion and culture and tradition. This kind of behavior of misguntled poeple make or create the division of Christian and Santhals. This some time does not allow the assimilation of Christians into Santhals community frame work. Now let me look at ourselves........How much we are able to preserve or conserve our cultural roots and vignettes ? Why are we so resistive to assimilate some thing else in the frame work of community ? Let us introspect ourselves.......When we are allowed to assmilate some of Hindu Culture into our tradition, why not other ? For example, our name.....Naresh, Ramesh, Raj, Jadeswar etc. This is not the name from our language. It is from Bengali or Oria language. We never hesitate to tell that this not part of our lanaguge , why not put some kind of Santhali Name...e.g. Marang, Greetin , Burulukui etc. So it means that we are presenting the  interpretation dogmatic views. Is not it ?

What we can conclude from this ? We have to think some thing what we can do better out of the present situation. Which way we can preserve our fundamentals of our culture and tradition with small assimilation or incorporation of other  elements.

My views: One should not call Santhals Christian or some thing like this to distinct oneself from other. I feel it is better to say I am Santhals... Not Chriatian Santhals......
With regards
Naresh

Hello everybody,
Its nice to have a new member in our group , a warm welcome to Francis.As Francis has raised the question of a gap between non-christian santal and christian santal I would like to have a few say in this regard. It is very sad to say but it is a fact that there infact exist a gap.As far as I know some santals who have adopted chritianity as their religion have almost given up their rites and rituals that have been descended from our forefathers.(I dont know whether all those santal who have adopted chritianity are like that or not, but the ones who I know).This is something very unfortunate. In my view all religions preach the same thing,that is to love mankind, to adopt peaceful means etc. So whether you adopt Hinduism, Chritianity, Buddhism or Islam , is not a big factor.The question is how you preserve your identity as a Santal.This identity can be preserved only when you follow your tradition comprising rites and rituals and the others. When you forgo all these things I do not think you remain a Santal. Therefore I would like to conclude by saying that whatever may be your religion, if you want to remain a Santal you should not forget your roots and your rich traditional background and enrich it by observing all ceremonies in your traditional way.
With regards,
Jyotsna Saren

Thu Nov 8, 2001  12:23 pm
Dear friends
here i want say few points.
 1)Tudu babu said that there is ongoing campaign against  chrsitian .that's right.but that does not mean we are carried away by that type issue.ofcourse i feel bad when  some hindu activist dicriminately attack poor adivasi christian.why not rich christian.ofcourse,personally i am  against this attack.everybody has right about his religion.but again one can't say one am both "hindu and christian" or "muslim and sarna"or "christian and sarna"
 2)once again repeat i respect all religion.at sametime  i expect same treatment from other.i can go any religion place if they allow me.and ofcourse i have been to Mandir  and Church.that does not mean i am hindu or christian.  nobody can hijack my religion ,that's in my heart.
3)i said earlier that, chistian missionary comes to poor santhal village and tell them that they want to give free education.at initially phase they don't say  anything about christianity.when they tought them fewthing about education,they start their own mission.they start teaching about JESUS and their belief.that mean i think their hidden agenda is to convert poor Santhal to christian in the name of LITERACY  CAMPAIGN.this is real opportunitism.this type of incident  happened in my own village.but when we came to know their REAL INTEREST behind it, we got them out.
3) As it is known some people fear to say their surname.yeah this is right but i think this is because we don't have recognition, for which we are struggling.we don't want to pronouce our surname by chirstian support.if you take their support,in turn they take something from you. which is happended already.
4)yeah there is economical problem among many santhals,  that we will try to do some project by our different santhal association to eradicate it.but we will not sell  our religion for that.  at last i say, i don't have any intension to hurt any people.but fact is fact.
bye.
b.kisku

Wed Nov 7, 2001  10:53 am
hi hembram babu
 thanks for making me connected to wesanthals's ebate over the issue,  ANTAL INDENTITY.At first i would like to request you to approach on my behalf to egroup cordinator to make me the member and please forward this message to egroup family.Though i am not the member of this family till now ,i would like to put my views on this type of important issue.ofcourse i tried earlier to be a member of egroup. Yeah i am santal,and i mean
 1)my belief
 2) my culture
 3) my tradition
 4)my language
 i can term the first three as my religion THE ARNA.And i can say my religion and my language is very much different from any other religion (or beliefs) of this world.Ofcourse SARNA is not recognised in india or world. So as i feel myself as a responsinble santhal person i try my best to preserve our tradition, our religion.And i request you all responsible santhal and egroup family to try level best to preserve our santhal heritage. Otherwise we will be nowhere.ofcourse i don't want to comment on other religion-what is their good thing or bad thing.but i also expect other religion should not blame my belief.This identity issue made me unrest till last few year.but i couldn't express because of no proper environment.Thanks a lot EGROUP.Yes, christians who forgot santal tradition,how can they claim to be santhal.You know when tell about your surname kisku.murmu,tudu........other person ask you "are you a christian ".yes this is because crhistiantiy has exploited our belief.my request is,be firm and bold to resist this exploitation.yes christianity helped santhal in oneway,but looted us in other way.You know christian missionary tried to spread their belief in the name of "LITERACY CAMPAIGN".These things really i cann't allow.And thanks my GODFATHER u resisted somehow and saved us, though you are poor.And there is other thing i want to put, our urname is distorted like anything.Can you acccept  t? No we should not.i feel very angry and disappointed if somebody make   ckery of our surname.such as  mrmu.......murmur,marndi..ar.andi,
soren......sareen,  kisku........khisku.something like that.OFcourse this may be happening because of our indentity problem.so let us try to stop it. again, there are also other issues which are to be addressed.so at first we should be united,strong enough to face this type of challenge.
 HERE IS MY IMPORTANT SUGGESTION
 --------------------------------------
 1.Let us make a proper and optimum utilisation of this advanced information age.i mean make optimum use of EGROUP site  to prosper our society.
 2.Don't be passive to this type of important issue. Everybody should speak his mind and share his views.
 3.Let's activate ourself to contribute something to our society-SANTHAL SOCIETY.
 Hoping for making me the member of this energatic family.As well i expect numerous views and suggetions.
bye.
Barisa Kisku
 
Wed Nov 7, 2001  7:29 pm
Dear friends,
JOHAR !
It was only a concern expressed by one of our new member about the prevailing mentality and difference of opinion between people of different faiths among the santhals in Jamshedpur.However this needs a serious discussion and I have tried to form a general opinion in this topic.To aware us that too much of intellectualisation of this issue would confuse us more on our cultural identity.In fact what is seen so far is most of the members are getting carried away by the ongoing campaign against christianity. I am a SANTHAL.I mean it.I am a christian by faith - for a simple reason that I was born and brought up in a christian family.Now according to many of the members I am not a santhal.To be more specific the
point raised by Mr.Kisku does'nt bother or rather does'nt restrict me from being called a santhal .I need not require to claim for my own identity,this should be very well understood. To me many of you are christians by deed.We need to know the meaning of christianity and have broad view of the word "christian".Now why there is a different view of the santhals who have adopted christanity and what about those santhals who go to MANDIR to perform
pujas and get themselves identified along with the HINDUS ?? Is that any form of SARNA??What would you call a santhal ATHIEST ??
I dont see any reason for discrimination among santhals.The form of 'caste certificate' issued by the government also also does'nt state your religion.Is it really necessary to discriminate?? And who does? We - the "ntellectual lot"of our marginalized community.Santhals in Santhal Pargana still live in egalitarian society inspite of many of the converted families.A strong campaign is going on by the political parties to disturb the unity of the Santhals of this region and I'm afraid they are yielding positve results.And if one thinks that a santhal of other faith no longer remains a santhal ,then we wouldbe called a bunch a intellectual fools deciding
the future of over one crore santhals ,majority of whom do not even know our topic of discussion.I know some santhals who do not pronounce their surname in public,never taught santhali to their children so they do not speak the language.Some feel shy to do 'DOBOH
JOHAR'in public.Is this not disgusting!! Identity and Faith are two different aspects and
cannot be the sides of the same coin for everyone.A santhal will always be a santhal whether he worships in Jaherthan,Mandir,Church,Mosque or be an Atheist.
We should be able to discern the times and re-think our respective ideologies which would help us grow a better SANTHAL day by day.
Thanking you,
Joy Raj Tudu.

Fri Nov 9, 2001  12:48 am
Johar,
Thanks for your instant reply.What worries me most is the complex which we have seem to develop in this series of discussion, why do we think that there has to be a criteria for a being a Santhal.And secondly on what basis are you making a criteria to be fulfilled by each existing Santhal.One should not forget that we can be of immense help to the downtrodden lot of our community be it in whatever capacity and position.Further the point made by Mr.Kisku of carrying out dual religion is simply ridiculous!!!!!!!!!I am a Santhal better than anyone in this cosmos,I can speak the very best of Santhali language and carry out our Santhal tradition much better than most of us .Why is it so difficult to embrace a Santhal who follows a different religion?????
I should not be asking this for the second time but you should be specific in stating your opinion clearly rather than running around the bush. There are a lot of other issues which need to be discussed as regards the recent declaration of reservation of quota to the tribals in the state of Jharkhand.Are you all aware of this ..... I also would like to hear from rest of the members ,please feel free to comment on the ongoing topic of Santhal Identity.
Much Regards,
Joy Raj Tudu.

Fri Nov 9, 2001  10:55 am
dear friends
i hope for the views from other members.otherwise it seems one-sided discussion. and i do hope there is solution to every problem.in my perception we do have following problem
1)we don't have recognition
2)we have economical problem
3)our literacy rate very low.
4)few social drawbacks
Mr.Tudu babu is focussing only economical and literacy problem.but he is ignoring the first one which is also equally important.  now, few people may be economical very strong,but they lost their original identity.so i think all these are to addressed paralelly.  when we think about our recognition,CRITERIA OF SANTHAL comes into picture, the point which is well described by Mr. Devendra babu.when recognition issue is  concerned we shouldn't mixup it with any borrowed ideologies.we should strengthen our ideologies and eradicate any social drawbacks, rather than completely  forgetting our original ideologies.
please take active participation in this discussion,otherwise it will remain like daydream.
bye.
b.kisku

Fri Nov 9, 2001  6:21 pm
Hi all,
Again returned back to the discussion by highlighting few of the good points presented by diff members, which have made the discussion pretty well. At the same time, it seems some people's anger of years got busted and may lead personal conflict. I wish let's compromise with the issue from all sides.
Barisa Kisku said>> Yes, christians who forgot santal  tradition, how can they claim to be santhal. Jay Tudu said>> Now why there is a different view of the santhals who have adopted christanity and what about those santhals who go to MANDIR to perform pujas and get themselves identified along with the HINDUS ??
Exactly both's arguments are worth pondering. We need to introspect ourselves, our way of life before blaming someone. People from both the sides have washed away few of the criteria noted by Devendra Murmu. That never means, we, such people are not be called as santals. I think one's claim to called himself on the basis of speaking santal frequently, is not sufficient. I have seen some gentleman from "muchi" community at rourkela(I forgot the name) have contributed enough in santal literature, and many times has been invited as a speaker in santal gathering. That never means that he is a santal. In such cloudy situation, I think the sole criteria to be called as santal is to have "Belief in Jaher Culture". Who ever u may be hindu/christian none stops u to do so, unless urself hesitate doing so. I have seen the saddest part of so called christian santal is that they hesitate to do "johar in jaher".
Devendra Murmu said>>The religion is not only how and where people perform puja, it pretty much lays down the guidelines for running the life. In other words, it is the religion that dictates most of the day to day practices, and the same practices, later, become traditions.
This is how our tradition came. So when someone claims that I fully obey the tradition of santal, then it's implied that he has belief in SARNA. In the contrary, if someone doesn't have belief in SARNA, then how he can claim that he obeys traditional of santal.
If we see our past, as hindu, we got a place as untouched lower class hindu. On the same time christian came and looted our identity on the name of service and literacy. We have been betrayed from both these religions. Don't u think it's our time to find out our root (ref: Naresh's mail on 31/10/2001).
Jay Tudu said>>>santhal will always be a santhal whether he worships in Jaherthan,Mandir, Church,Mosque or be an Atheist.
Does it mean that someone born with surnames majhi, marndi, hembram, tudu ... is a santal? Or does it mean someone who just talks in santali is a santal? I guessed people would have changed their surnames if they would haven't got the reservation facility and at the same time would have been treated as Adivasi. I doubt people would have forgotten santali long years ago if they would have spoken santali just bcoz they know santali. We still talk in santali, where we have more fluency in other languages. Analysing all these, I conclude that neither speaking santali nor getting birth with santal surnames shouldn't suffice to give us santal identity. On the other hand, in this democratic government, none can debar u from ur santal identity. This is where we, ourselves, should preserve our santal identity. If we hesitate to introduce ourselves as santal rather than hindu/ christian, then none can save our identity. On the same time as PC Hembram told, we should feel proud to be known as a Santal without a prefix or suffix. If we want to enrich our languages, want to show our uniqueness as
santal to the world, we have to struggle combinely to many problems of this community. And among them one of the great weapon for us is to preserve our santal
culture and tradition.
So finally I want to say, doesn't matter where u warship apart from Jaherthan. We shouldn't divide ourselves as hindu/christian rather we should love to see us all as the santal community with SARNA belief as all our traditions are based on that. We should forget what have made us such wall between us. We should combinedly work to make a big fight against the other problem in our society. On the same time, I request those christian-brothers/sisters, who have ignored the santal tradition, to adore it back. I request the those hindu brothers/sisters, who used to hide their origin in the way to expose theirhighness, plz try to identify urself as santal and feel proud of it. In this context as jyotsna told the question is how you preserve your identity as a Santal. This identity can be preserved only when we follow our tradition comprising rites and rituals. So friends, let us obey our santal culture and tradition and enrich it. Unless we, the intellectual mass will do it, we can't expect same from the people left at villages.
regards
Raj
 
Sat Nov 10, 2001  2:15 am
JOHAR,
Nice to have this disscussion at a god momentum,thanks to Raj for giving us space for further introspection within ourselves. The subject of this posting is what I mean. Without ignoring the past I am also trying to focus on this subject in todays context,in my view I have stated very sraightforwardly my opinion on the situation of a Santhal today.Now stating my knowledge about the Santhali language and tradition was mistaken as my claiming of bieng a Santhal,and as I have stated earlier that I need not require to claim for my own identity.To let you know in Santhal Parganas almost all the shopkeepers can speak Santhali with much confidence... they are'nt Santhals. What I have noted that there is a general opinion formed for those Santhals who have been converted,Let me share that today I was with a training programme for the youth organised by the 'National council of Churches in India'in Nagpur.And after my paper presentation regarding the ongoing war against Afghanistan,there was a resource person who asked me about my background,and he was happy to hear that me being a santhal and we contribute to a crore in todays population,and also have an ethnic background much different from others.Intererstingly he was an anthropologist and believe me he knew of Santhals better that anyone of us.People may call you in names but we should call ourselves santhals. It is true that we should preserve our Santhal identity by following our traditions,But does that mean preserving santhal identity by outcasting santhals following other religions??? And if it is such I have no terminology for this sort of opinions.
It is true that the "GAP BETWEEN" is because we have build 'WALLS' instead of 'BRIDGES'.I'm also afraid this 'difference' is leading us nowhere.

Joy Raj Tudu
Nagpur.

Sat Nov 10, 2001  7:52 pm
Hello,
The whole discussion is revolving around the Santhal identity some where comes to a standstill around the Culture and tradition . Culture and tradition is the basis of ethnic identity . And most fortunate part is that Santhal loves more to preserve and propagate the tradition as compared to other tribal like, Ho, Oraon , Munda etc. Denvendra mentioned in his mail that some of the criteria's, which is one kind of quantification of qualitative aspects of culture. Although number of criteria can be debatable, but as whole it gives some kind of measure towards the definition of Santhal identity. Here I want to let others know some of the paradox of Santhal identity. It is fact that it is Christianity which gave the Santhal (in broad sense the tribal ) identity to Santhal people and it is the Christian missionaries who rediscovered the most of the cultural and traditions of Santhal. Who actually did the research on tribal people unlike other Indian researchers coming into the cores of the society and living with tribal people and tried to find out the independent identity of tribal society and place Santhal society into the world map in respectable format. So we should be thankful to them at least for this reason. But problem starts here, after finding the powerful cultural roots and vignettes ,which we are now proud of , Santhal or tribal (Christian) starts finding unusual dilemma in one hand Christianity and on the other hand deep rooted cultural and traditional heritage. The articles by Bishop Dr. Nirmal Minz (Tribal identity), Dr. Chritopher Lakra (Christianity and Tribal identity) clearly reflects this views.("Souvenir 97" Jharkhand  Cultural Association, Bangalore ). It is more like Christianity taught the to stand up but to the same time it has taken away the ground to stand. This kind of discussion further is here is more a repetition of same problem and has no foreseeable solutions. Here I think we should try to find out the reasons and or focus more on the issues which creates the gap between the Santhals and Christians. As Joy Tudu  suggested to find the bridges or if necessary construct the bridges to reduce the in between gaps. Let us focus more why there exists the gap ? What are the responsible factors which contributes for the creating the gaps. I think that will lead us some kind of solutions . I feel that will be more fruitful discussion in pursuit of tribal identity. Here I invite members to list out or put forward reasons what they feel towards the gaps and give some  constructive suggestions to minimize it. Perhaps that will lead us to more prosperous and strong Santhal society wrapped with marvelous cultural and traditional mosaic.
With regards,
Naresh
Wed Nov 21, 2001  10:52 am
hi friends
it's nice we are discussing about an important issue  - santhal identity.but still i see there is limited interaction,just like some are giving lecture and other are simply listening to it.so i feel it's not proper discussion.let's make more effective by participating  by maximum members.  here i would like to know specifically from christian friends, if they like to share about their impression about SARNAISM.
1)when some christian friends say, they born and brought up in Christian family and can speak santhal,  so they are christian santhal.but i guess their  grand father or great grand father were born in sarna family.so by applying same logic, then why there is  discontiunty in SARNAISM.is their any specific reason?  i can say,they can rewind this discontiniuty, if they wish.mind you this your FUNDAMENTAL RIGHTS,so it's up to you.
2)when christian friend say,they love to speak santhal  then, why don't they love SARNAISM, when sarna and santhal are inseparable.is their any specific reason?
hoping for cooperation from christian friends.please  share your views.
bye.
b.kisku
Newdelhi.

Thu Nov 22, 2001  9:13 am
Johar,
Well, it looks like very few members are showing interest in the discussion. Anyway, I remember one of the postings of Purna Chandra, which had put this question - to look for the definition of Santhal. When I mentioned a few criteria, to be Santhal, my intention was to trigger a thought process, which eventually would lead us to the correct, or very close to the correct, definition of Santhal. I was expecting responses like - these are neither necessary nor sufficient; along with some suggestions.
The fact about Christians' role in Santhals' lives may be well documented; and the Christians may have contributed in a big way in educating, training and helping tribals; and in the shaping of tribal life in general. Thank you Naresh for the information. So, what do we learn from this ? That if any worthwhile effect that would also strengthen our identity, has to come from within our community and not from outside; whatever has been done or are being done by others - Christians or Hindus - will, ultimately, always serve their interests more than ours.
People are talking about the gaps, walls and bridges.  I am trying to understand these in the present context. It goes without saying that we cannot address the issues unless we know them well. In fact, I had already asked about the differences, apart from the very obvious - Jaher Bonga and praying in Church. Can someone knowledgeable elaborate on the differences that has developed and continuing to develop among us. Also, instead of still talking about the gaps in this specific two religions, can we help ourselves in trying to understand as to what are some of the things that are diluting our Identity and what possible curesdo we have ?
Regards,
Devendra

Hi
friends,i do regret 4 not 2 contact u in time and it was because i was out of touch with mail 4 few days.It is nice 2 get adiscussion regarding the topic u mentoined in my mail as it is the matter of identity crisis.Many people, u might have come acrossed,feel depressed saying themselves as santals.It happens as they do not feel their existence have strong anchor in
this society. Let's say about turning or converting in 2 chritianity.I say it happens only b'cause of not having knowledge what SANTAL means or what SARNA implies. So it is our job 2 bring abuot the awarness in them and make them feel great as being and born as SANTAL.I will keep in touch with u all people.bye.
dillip.
 
Source:http://wesanthals.tripod.com/id16.html
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